COLLEGE PARK, Md. — "I'm Lucy Taylor, your host and favorite ex-communicated sister, this is Snapped.”
That’s how new episodes of Lucy Taylor’s podcast begin. Four years ago, she was days away from graduating the University of Maryland when she decided to publicly share her negative experience with sorority life. It started as a passion project. It’s now amassed hundreds of thousands of downloads. She’s interviewed more than 40 current and former members of Greek life organizations, both at her alma mater, and other schools across the country.
And she’s given her listeners a glimpse into a hidden world, especially when it comes to hazing.
"There were actual cases of assault now that I think about it,” one recent UMD grad, Max, told her in an interview. "They were straight up waterboarding us - when you put a rag over someone's face and pour water on them and you can't breathe,” he recounted.
"Then they had to throw up on top of each other. I was forced to watch it. I was the reason they had to go through this because I said no,” a Penn State alum named Kordel told Lucy.
Another, who asked to be kept anonymous, told Lucy how he started as the victim, and later became the perpetrator.
“You punched them in the face?” Lucy asked. After a long pause, the man replied, “yeah."
“Some bros hit pledges, then when those pledges became brothers themselves, it’s like, we’re gonna do the same thing, because I went through it. So that’s why the cycle is never gonna stop,” he told Lucy in her episode, The H-Word Part I.
During an interview with WMAR-2 News in front of Fraternity Row on Friday, Lucy said, “They would start the interview off, being like, 'oh it’s not that bad.' But then by the end of the interview, it’s shocking what a difference speaking about your experience will do. To say it out loud, and to have someone validate your experience is huge because usually in Greek life, there is no room to critique anything. And if you do, you’ll get met with the line, ‘oh Greek life isn’t for everyone.’ […] It’s so normalized that when you’re actually going through it, it’s just another day in the life, it’s just another day as a pledge. But often times when you graduate, there’s this moment of 'oh, that was really bad. That’s abuse, actually. That’s physical assault.’”
Likening the power dynamics involved in fraternity hierarchies to those seen in the infamous Stanford Prison Experiment, Lucy said, “If you put someone in that role, there’s going to be abuses of power." Through her interviews, she learned how the hazing starts out small, with seemingly silly tasks. "It then creates this culture of obedience, that then, further down the line, being told to punch someone, you’re already conditioned to do so," Lucy explains.
After listening to countless stories of hazing for her podcast, when UMD announced an indefinite suspension of all new member activities, and a “social moratorium” for all Interfraternity Council and Panhellenic Association organizations on campus due to allegations of misconduct, Lucy wasn’t surprised by any of the rumors that started swirling about what those allegations were. What really shocked her - was that the University was taking action. Still, when it comes to real change, she’s not holding her breath.
"The University endorses these groups but then when something goes wrong, it's suddenly the fault of the student. Then how come, all across the nation these things are happening? It's clearly not the students, it's the system,” she told us. “I don’t think this means things are changing. They have tried to implement various reforms for many years now. I mean, across the nation, these institutions have been trying to reform over and over again. If reform worked, we wouldn't be standing here right now.”
Last year, Lucy interviewed the mother of Timothy Piazza, the Penn State fraternity pledge who’s death led to one of the largest hazing prosecutions in U.S. history.
“A lot of the parents are really the ones suffering. It’s not just students being affected. These families now have lifelong trauma. Their son is dead. He’s not coming back. I feel horrible for her the fact that she has to see Betha Theta Pi at all these different campuses - it’s right over there,” Lucy said, pointing to the frat house on UMD’s campus. "It’s such a senseless death, where someone could’ve called for help, but they don’t because of the culture of secrecy.”
Lucy also interviewed one of Piazza’s former fraternity brothers, Kordel, who says he begged leaders in the frat to call 911 after Piazza fell down the basement stairs, eventually succumbing to severe head trauma and a ruptured spleen. Kordel says his urgent request was met with his brothers pushing him against the wall. Nobody called 911 for 12 hours after his initial fall.
In the aftermath, the school put forth“aggressive” reforms, but just this school year, in 2023, two frats have already been suspended for hazing.
"I don't know what it's gonna take in order to shut it [Greek life] down. If death won't do it, what will? I really hope they'll put student safety over profit but they haven't yet,” Lucy said.
The University of Maryland has not revealed much about the allegations that led to the current suspension, or how long the investigation is going to take. Lucy asked the administration to take a meeting with her, but she says that request was denied.
In response to the suspension, the North American Interfraternity Conference tells WMAR-2 News: NIC members stand ready to hold the few involved in misconduct accountable while advocating for students who uphold fraternal expectations and provide thousands of young men a positive fraternity experience. Since our members’ top priority is health and safety, we oppose system-wide actions which research shows disincentivizes future reporting and fosters a culture of mistrust among students and administrators.
Spencer Doyle, a junior at UMD and the chapter president of Phi Kappa Tau Fraternity said in a statement, "Our chapter doesn't condone hazing and risk management is a priority for maintaining a healthy and safe environment. This shut down was so sudden and we're frustrated with no answers. It is not fair to chapters operating the right way.”
Garrett Thomas Bruce, president of the Beta Kappa Chapter of Kappa Alpha Order at UMD, said, “We firmly oppose hazing and we agree that all groups and the university should be working together to combat hazing that may exist on this campus. However, this current blanket suspension for every organization across two Greek Councils is counterproductive and damages our relationships. It is an infringement on our individually afforded rights, and unfairly does reputational harm, most especially for those organizations who are not under investigation.”
Jackson Hochhauser, president of Theta Chi at UMD, said "It is disheartening that our Fraternity Chapter, which is not in violation of campus policy, is being subjected to punishment without due process. This action is unjustly depriving our members of their very positive experience in Theta Chi.”
The Phi Kappa Tau Fraternity Executive Office also offered a statement: "Phi Kappa Tau believes in accountability, especially when it involves the health and safety of members and students. When attempting to adjust behavior for an entire community, system-wide suspensions that are devoid of information or clarity not only fail to create the desired change - but strip the campus of the ability to hold individuals and organizations accountable who are responsible. Proper reporting of incidents will go down as students will fear punitive action to their own organization. We oppose the system-wide action and stand in alignment to hold only those chapters or members involved accountable based on allegations being found true."
We also received this joint statement from four of the national organizations: “With their attempts to unilaterally shut down fraternities and sororities, the University of Maryland administration embraces a deeply unfair standard of ‘guilt by association’ that would not and should not be tolerated by any student or organization. Administrators clearly began with their desired outcome and are now working backward to substantiate their heavy-handedness, creating a chilling effect among innocent students who are understandably intimidated by vague looming investigations that could jeopardize their futures. This wrongheaded decision also undermines the longstanding partnership of Greek organizations with the University in promoting the safety and well-being of everyone on campus.
This is a flagrant assault on due process and freedom of association of the adult students legally entitled to both. In doing so, the University of Maryland violates the law and their own procedures. We demand a reversal in course or will seek a legal remedy to secure the protection of rights for all University students and campus organizations.”
- Alpha Sigma Phi Fraternity
- Alpha Tau Omega
- Kappa Alpha Order
- Theta Chi Fraternity
